people like the architect of 911, muhammad in 2003, these were ideologues that will go to their graves believing that what they did was for a greater good and that the results of their efforts might not bear fruit for 50 years, 100 years. they had bits of emotion, but they were driven by a deep-seeded ideology. you fast forward 12 years, increasingly, and this case is not unique, you have kids that pretend like they've got an ideology, but, in fact, are emotional driven, they are frustrated, they are angry, and their ideology is just a veneer. if you press this guy for an hour, i guarantee you, he can't really explain the roots of what he did. he's going to tell you it some day, by the way, to close, that what he did was wrong, because his ideology is not as deep as the people who originated this movement 10, 15 years ago. >> does this mean you think of this as more of a senseless crime, more of a random crime, the kind of way we look at mass shootings and things, we don't care why they did it, we care about ways to stop them? >> i mentioned earlier, i see common characteristics to columbine, which people in this country hate to the hear. they want to categorize this as foreign terrorists. two brothers, one of whom radicalized the other. i guarantee they don't know much about the religion. this does not look to me like the al qaeda guys we were taking down 10, 12 years ago.